A Reading of Work and Purpose
Gada talks about how readings can reveal the natural ways people are inclined to express into the world and how we can feel our way into our sense of purpose. Then she does a reading focused on how her guest can express her full self more fully through her life and work.
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For more information about Intuition in the Myers-Briggs system, this podcast episode is a great resource: Podcast - Episode 0030 - Introverted vs Extraverted Intuition (personalityhacker.com)
"it's really very energetic"
While I often use the word energetic to mean that I am referencing energetic or subtle, less tangible levels of experience, in this instance, I am using the word energetic in the more common sense of involving great activity or vitality.
Here, when I talk about "that particular kind of intuitive process" I am referring back to extraverted intuition, but actually describing introversted intuition. You can hear a bit of confusion creep into my voice as I've just started to feel but not fully realize my mistake.
Gada: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Predella podcast. My name is Gada Jane. I'm your host, and this is a podcast about understanding people by exploring their inner worlds
So every week on this podcast I do a reading and then as I sit down and think about how I wanna introduce the themes of the reading, I feel like I get so excited and every single week I just think, wow, this is my number one favorite thing to talk about and think about and what I'm learning from this is that, while I may not be a reliable source of hierarchies, I am genuinely excited about the ways of understanding people that emerge from doing these readings, and I'm excited to be here to share that with you today.
Today's reading is largely about work, and by [00:01:00] that I mean both my guest's job and the work she feels called to do personally in her life. But the theme that runs through it all is really how my guest expresses herself into the world.
So I wanna talk for a moment before we jump into the reading about what that means exactly. I mean, we all know that people express differently into the world. This just refers to the fact that people act differently from each other. But my work as an intuitive, my work in these readings is about putting language to the inner worlds of people.
When I do a reading, I'm basically feeling, sensing, looking at what is happening inside people and then how that flows into how they behave. So the inner worlds of people are not static things. They're ever- flowing emotional cycles, response systems, patterns of behavior.
We are made up of our responses, the things that light us up, the things that shut us down, the things that drive us forward, the things we [00:02:00] remember, and the patterns in which our thoughts and feelings flow. It's like a complex system of layered processes. And when I talk about how a person expresses into the world, I'm really talking about how this inner self, the processes and patterns move into the world around them through how they express themselves,
in this case, the ways my guest expresses herself into the world start coming up right away. In this reading. It feels particularly important to her, at least in the moment that I'm doing the reading. for example, one of the small things that I note about today's guests is that she naturally always wants to express outwardly when something affects her, she wants to express herself. There's this sense that expressing, for her, completes a cycle. I think it's also partly because she's currently, as we talk about in the reading, holding back her impulse to express a bit so it's a [00:03:00] tension point and that's why it comes up for me so quickly. But I also think in general, expressing herself into the world seems very central to how this particular person finds fulfillment in her life.
So one thing in particular about my guest is that she really loves creating community spaces. We talk about it in the reading, and you'll notice as soon as you hear her voice, that she's very warm, she loves to communicate, share with people. , like her laugh is just very, very, contagious. And that sense of connection and that ease that she has in connecting is very important to who she is, like at the surface level of her personality.
But I get the sense as I tune into her that her interest in creating spaces for community is also driven by something somewhat deeper. There's this core need in her to express [00:04:00] her values through what she does and how she interacts with people. This is a person who cares about fairness in this intrinsic way, and she wants to express that and enact that through how she lives, which as you'll hear is part of her professional work.
She works in a advocacy role, but it's also very central to her as a person. So for the first part of today's reading, we really just explore this through talking about how she can best put her strength to work in her job.
The immediate circumstances of the reading is that she's thinking about applying for another job. And we talk about how she processes, how she thinks, how she does her work in like an internal inner processing way.
And we talk about how the circumstances of the new position might create different, more expansive opportunities, for her to do her work in a way that feels more natural and complete to her. Then the conversation takes a bit of a turn. Up until this point, the kinds of [00:05:00] inner processes and forms of expression we've been talking about might be a little bit abstract, but they're not really esoteric at all.
But as my guest and I continue to go deeper into the reading, we come to this deeper part of her that is not really about her general processing. It's not about her presentation or how she presents herself in the world. It's something that seems to touch the core of what feels important to her. We start talking about something at the center of her, a space, a clearing, a feeling of something mattering.
We are talking about something we both feel. She feels in herself, and I am sensing in her, but it's this thing that is a bit harder to fix into language, and our language starts to become metaphorical and that's because this. Area, this kind of place or [00:06:00] force or space that we're trying to describe that exists within her is kind of difficult to talk about. I think one way to understand the kind of force or space that I'm talking about is to say it's a bit like the creative impulse, like that drive to create,
because, you know, many people have this drive to make something, to create something in their life, but it's really hard to delineate or define what that is because it feels different in different people and it comes out in different forms. People are interested or caught by different things.
People see the world in different ways and they prefer to express through different mediums, whether it's painting words, movement, breath work. And whether their expression is marked by silliness or pain or exuberance or trying to capture a sense of terror. There's [00:07:00] so much variation and even the, the shape or the form of the impulse itself can just feel fundamentally different in some ways but it is still that drive to create and in the same way, there's something that is a specific thing, but also hard to pin down as a specific thing that is at the core of a person. And I think that's what we're sort of working our way into as we get into this reading , another way to talk about it is to give it conceptual language like purpose, vocation, meaning these are big words that can feel impossibly general or abstract, and maybe not even real sometimes to people.
It's, it's kind of hard to talk about because, you know, what are you gonna say? Like, oh, you know that space in the middle of a person's abdomen. , I mean, do we know that space in the middle of a [00:08:00] person's , abdomen? I don't know. , but personally, I've always had this keen sense of this space that is attached to or is the shape of something that drives them.
It makes the person who they are and , again, it's not static. It's a thing that moves forward that wants, but wants from a very centered place and this kind of center, this wanting, driving centered center. The purpose at the middle of a person, however you wanna speak about it, has always felt very central to what I feel I'm engaging with when I engage with a person in any meaningful way, and I just assumed that everybody was feeling this way about other people. I assumed that people just didn't mention, you know, [00:09:00] the purpose-driven space at the center of my abdomen because it was rude to do that.
And I also felt a bit confused that nobody else seemed to talk about this or to respond to this in me. And I sometimes felt a bit hurt by it.
It was much later that I realized that maybe not everybody was actually feeling like this was the easiest thing to understand about a person I.
I don't know how many people actually feel this really palpably. Maybe not everyone does. I'm sure a lot of people actually do to some degree or another, but we train ourselves to ignore it, to disregard that information because it's not, I. External. It's not valid. It's not easy to understand, and I think in some ways this is why in our culture, people have become confused about the subject of purpose. Our cultural preference [00:10:00] for easy to define clearly marked categories over experiential knowing have confused the matter immensely to the point that when the subject comes up, we often seem to feel that we should be able to match our lived experience to this external concept.
And when this proves difficult, we start to feel like maybe purpose doesn't exist, and we get into these kind of vague conversations about what is purpose, what does it mean, what does it refer to? Do I have a purpose?
One of the things that I offer in my intuitive practice is what I call a Find your Purpose reading. These are structured readings in which I start with what I find at the core of my subject, and then I move outward. Into what I call the person's calling, which is something like the opportunity to express the purpose that is provided from outside. So if purpose is how you roll into the world, calling is the path you express that purpose through.[00:11:00] so by describing these two things, I give people this sense of how they naturally want to unfold in the world.
Then I go on to read how the person's expression of and relationship to their purpose has been shaped by their experiences and life history. And then I talk about where they can go next or what to focus on to begin to ground into their purpose based on where they are right now.
Now, even though today's reading touches on similar themes, it's not a structured Find your purpose reading, because when I do one of those readings, I frame the work technically differently. I'm looking at the center and then looking at the calling and then building outwards, but this reading has a lot in common with one of those readings because in talking about how the self emerges, we get to similar questions.[00:12:00]
I think one thing that's become clear to me in doing these readings is that we get a lot of benefit from just noticing and trusting the lived experience.
It seems to me that the fact that I can describe these inner parts of people in ways that they recognize as specifically them is one of the most exciting things about this work, because I think so often because these inner deeper parts of us go unseen and unvoiced, they actually stop feeling real to us.
So I guess I am here to tell people , that that feeling that is pressing and real and tells you what is meaningful and important that exists at the center of your body is real. And I can see it too, and I can feel it too.[00:13:00]
Maybe sometimes it's shaded by fear, ambition, or insecurities maybe it's masked by what we think we need to be or should be, but it is real and It is important.
Unfortunately, even though I think we all feel this, it is the essence of what we feel to be important. Because it's internal, because it's invisible, it's very easy to obscure, to ignore, to shift away from. We can easily stuff it down and present ourselves in false ways and do work that doesn't suit us to the point that we lose our own connection to this part of ourselves and I think this is a source of deep unhappiness for many people.
I also think that we often ignore or deny what feels most important simply because we're not comfortable with the process of [00:14:00] following the kind of guidance that this sense of significance gives us. Our sense of purpose doesn't generally lead us with a clearly marked plan. We are often guided by knowing the next right step, and sometimes this involves waiting and aligning instead of staying busy and looking appropriately productive, all of which can be very anxiety- inducing for modern people.
But if we practice honing in.
On what? On this space in our abdomen. It sounds so petty in a way, but I think it really is something important. If we practice this, I think we start to feel more centered in our lives. So in this reading with my guest [00:15:00] today, we go to the site of that feeling. My guest seems to be at a moment of clearing and connecting to this space inside of her.
and it's interesting because it feels like it's guiding her. It doesn't give her the end goal. We don't settle on any specific answers about what this thing is taking her towards, what the end of this project that she maybe is embarking on is going to look like, but it does begin to reveal its own process to move forward.
And the process in many ways is the same as the intuitive process I use to read her. You just attend. You notice, you listen. You allow the next thing to emerge. You navigate by feel.[00:16:00] and this same process is something that you can use if you would like to sit with yourself and explore how you express into the world, or explore this way of seeing or understanding your purpose.
If you want to try that, I encourage you to simply sit and notice what you feel in your abdomen and describe it. Notice what you feel not in the physical space of your abdomen, I should say, but in the energetic space of your abdomen and don't try to understand it. Just allow yourself to notice and discover.
You don't need to predetermine what it's going to feel like. In the same way that you don't need to predetermine what is going to feel right to you in your life and what will feel most like you. Allow yourself to be surprised. Allow yourself to get to know this center space just by noticing.[00:17:00] I really do believe that we can feel our way into more authentic expressions of ourselves. I. And when we start to feel what feels true and authentic to us, the key is to trust those feelings, to honor that felt sense of self. Because there is no rule about how this should look or feel that will apply to everyone.
And we are all going to learn who we are by feeling out what lights us up and what creates that feeling of meaning inside us.
Now we're gonna get into the reading, but before we do, since this episode is dealing with more abstract concepts, I wanna encourage you to relax as you listen to it, and allow yourself to let the meaning work its way through you to feel into the senses of what we're talking about rather than to try to understand every word in,[00:18:00] a more technical or hard-edged way.
With that, I bring you this week's reading, but first, if you know anyone who is interested in inner worlds or understanding themselves, please make sure to share this podcast with them and make sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Let's go to my guest.
Hi, welcome. What did you wanna talk about today?
Guest: I wanna do an in general, just life check-in if that's okay?
Gada: Sure. Let's start there. Okay.
I'll just take a few moments to kind of tune into your energy and see what I sense. What I feel first is a lot of fluttery energy and like flickers of possibilities. It feels like you are kind of getting excited about different things, but maybe there's not. [00:19:00] Maybe you're not sure where to focus, what to focus on.
It also feels like you are being very patient with things outside yourself and that's taking up a lot of space. Like there's some situation in your life that you're watching with a certain curiosity.
Guest: I feel like there's a couple of potentials for that.
Gada: Yeah, it feels like it's, there's a similarity in how you're dealing with a few different aspects of your life. Mm-hmm. And there's a sense of not fully engaging, which I think is an interesting thing. Going back to that initial feeling, I feel like you like to be almost like this fully engaged ball of energy moving.
Like you're, you're very, you're all in. Yeah. All in. Yeah. And it feels like you're not really there, like you are in the sense of the way you are in your own space. Like I feel like you're fully engaged you're not disconnected within your body, [00:20:00] within your life somehow. But there's this sense of like, how do you bring that into the world?
There feels like a kind of like, let me wait and see. Mm-hmm. Energy. And that feels a bit a unsettling for you cuz that's not how you like to be.
Guest: Not at all. It's a very Like trying to be, like you said, patient trying to turn that enthusiasm inward towards me and not be so impulsive and then have any regret.
Gada: Mm. I do feel like you turning it inwards. It's almost like. That's an incomplete cycle just for how your energy works. Like when you turn your energy and sort of build it up inside of you, it's very natural for you to express it outwards. Mm-hmm. That just feels like how energy moves through [00:21:00] you .
It's like, yeah, there's this cycle of like, and then you express the. This enthusiasm into the world and that enthusiasm can come through just engaging with people or being part of something or it can come through helping people, like I feel like it's often very, like being part of a community is important.
Being connected to people doing things is important, but there, but there's an element of it that's not just. Not just, oh, I'm glad to be here and be part of this. On the side, it feels important for you to be expressing something through being part of that community and not holding yourself back.
Guest: Yeah. I, in my personal life and in my professional life, I do a lot of connecting people and a lot of service to others. Often to the detriment of myself and forgetting myself in the process. So it feels like [00:22:00] I'm not letting myself be the forgotten piece in this.
Gada: Like, you're not now let, you're now not letting yourself be the forgotten piece.
Guest: Yeah. Like if I'm, even when I'm helping other people, even when I'm doing it as a job or personally, that I still get to show up as me and be a part of that as opposed to just having all my effort go out and not Not in any way serve me or heal me.
Gada: That's what you're aiming for. That's what you're trying to, yeah.
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So what it feels like to me is that you're looking at these situations in your life and you're trying to figure out how you can actually come to them and feel like you're, you are present in them. Mm-hmm. And it feels like it is difficult with the specific and like around your professional life, it feels like it's difficult because[00:23:00] there's a space for you, but not necessarily a full space for you to express yourself somehow. Like there's some sense of you can fit in, almost like bring, bring what is wanted of you. It's like, here are the nodes which they want you to link to. Mm-hmm. But when there's this sort of energy and sense of possibility, that is sort of okay, that's sort of peripheral, that's not, but that is actually how you engage, is to feel excited about things that, to feel like like you're moving mo like it's really very energetic, like moving possibilities, moving energy around coming up with ideas.
The sense of creating something. Yeah. In the community or amongst people. It's not necessarily a product or a piece or something, but there's something of no. Making something happen. And that feels like there's not really space for that in the work.
Guest: I know exactly what [00:24:00] you're talking about.
Yeah. My main role is advocacy and making sure that other people are taken care of. Mm-hmm. And I do it on a regional level, and I just found out yesterday about the opportunity to do it with a sister organization on a statewide level, and I'm really excited about that.
Yeah. Yeah. Because I love what I'm doing. And the ability to make positive change happen on a larger level means helping more people. Mm-hmm. And that's what I'm excited about, but also nervous about.
Gada: Yeah. With the moving into this new, it feels like there's more space for you to come up with ideas or like it feels like the way you've been doing it has. Almost like certain [00:25:00] limits on Yes. How much you can do. Yes. And it's a very I would say almost pragmatic structure that you've been working in. Mm-hmm. Whereas I do feel like there's more space in this new.
In this new space you'd be in. It's like a bigger space. There's, it also feels like less of it is covered. It's almost like there are gaps. So it feels like the reason that they want you is that there's gaps to fill in what they can do, but that means that there's actually a space for you to fill in what your role would be.
Guest: There's more room to be expansive in that role.
Gada: Yeah it feels very much like that and that feels very exciting. It does feel a bit like the initial thing would involve a period of confusion and not quite being sure what's where. Yeah. There's like a sorting out and there's a kind of, it almost feels like you might be left to figure things out a little bit.[00:26:00]
It may feel like the people that you're working alongside all have their own things mm-hmm. That you fill in your space, but that may be involving like the way you bring in your own community,
yeah. Instead of participating with the people who are like your colleagues in that
That totally makes sense.
Gada: But I feel like there's a lot of space for you to actually expand into it, which is really nice. That's exciting. I do feel like there's something about just in both like the current job and the one that you'd move into, there's a warmth and like this sort of energy and ideas. That you have can sometimes feel confusing to people that do the same work as you. And I almost feel like this is an intuitive thing, so there's different ways you can use the word intuition.
Like I use it to talk about this kind of intuitive reading where I'm sensing mm-hmm. This like sensing information. Anything [00:27:00] where you don't really know where the information is coming from can be intuitive. Yeah. But then there's this. Other definition of intuitive which you see in like Myers-Briggs typology systems where you have pattern recognition and it's basically a way of processing and learning.
And I feel like you, like in a Myers-Briggs system would be using extroverted and intuition which is this expansive, like possibility generating intuitive process. So you're running a lot of patterns about what's possible and generating a lot of possibilities all the time.
Okay, so. Gada here jumping in with just a quick note to say that I believe that I was wrong about this. I realized almost immediately following the reading that I was incorrect about which form of intuition in the Myers-Briggs system my guest was using. So, Lemme just explain quickly. In the Myers-Briggs system, which is commonly misconstrued, as either painting a picture of a whole personality or as describing where you fall on four [00:28:00] dichotomies in the four letter code is actually based on identifying which of eight cognitive functions or internal processes you prefer in which order.
And what I just said in reading her is that her preference is extroverted intuition, which is obviously really dumb when I look at how I actually describe her processing in this reading. Essentially what I sensed is that she was using an extroverted or world facing function, and I felt the shapes of an intuitive process.
And I conflated these into one thinking that I was sensing extroverted intuition, when in fact I think I was sensing, extroverted feeling supported by introverted intuition so, when I say what extroverted intuition is, I'm describing extroverted intuition. But when I switch back into describing my guest and how she processes, what I describe, actually aligns more with introverted intuition than extroverted intuition. \
And of [00:29:00] course, if you're not very familiar with M B T I or aren't interested in it, this may not make sense. It also may be very boring, but I just wanted to correct myself because if you do know the functions, you might see that I'm expressing a lot of confusion here. So it was sort of a dumb thing that I did.
Mm-hmm. Does that sound?
Guest: I tend to be, I tend to be better suited in a role where I'm looking at the bigger picture.
Yeah. And trying to figure out how all the pieces fit together better than how they're currently operating, so that everything is moving more smoothly or has more capacity to do whatever it is. That's that I'm trying to move forward.
Gada: Yeah, and I feel like that can be sometimes a bit confusing for the people around you who are much more tend to be focused on, these are my current steps , like working within the system as it exists.
You may find that the, while there's more space, [00:30:00] there's still a little bit of confusion about what you're doing when you're seeing the big picture. Yeah. I feel like because you're quite sensitive to people sometimes you can hold that back a little bit.
Mm-hmm. And that goes back to the holding back if people aren't like engaging and enthusiastic about it or you're not getting the positive feedback around it. Yeah. So I have the sense that if you were to if, because I have the sense that for some reason you can bring in make your own connections and bring in your own community somehow.
Mm-hmm. Like the people that you work with outside or in the advocacy work itself, you can choose who you bring in and if you can structure that so that there's this like sense of expansiveness and that is fed in you by the people you choose to bring in, I feel like that would be very positive for you.
Guest: Yeah. That makes complete sense.
Gada: So in the Myers-Briggs system you have intuiting and you have sensing people there's different versions of each, but sensing people [00:31:00] like to see things and then they. They understand the world based on what they're seeing already happening, whether it's in the physical world or things they remember happening.
Yeah. But it's inputting from past experiences, whereas intuitive people will take everything they've seen, run it through patterns and then come up with what they think is possible or what they think is going to happen depending on their type of intuition. For you, being aware that you might be processing differently than a lot of people around you, especially in this specific way, can help you to instead of maybe feeling misunderstood or actually trying to explain it to people who aren't getting it. Help you to figure out, okay, well how do I set up the spaces where I can really do this? Because I feel like that's a, almost like a very strong need in you is to be coming up in these Yes. Possibilities. Absolute. Absolutely. Yeah, so I think that's something, it's almost like you can create the framework to allow yourself to use this process, to use this [00:32:00] function instead of kind of hoping that other people are going to get it, which I think not everyone around you is going to get it or wanna do that.
Guest: No, they don't. And that also explains why it feels like it comes out of nowhere. When there's the solution or the, you know, the, like you said, the pattern recognition, running through the possibilities, and then the one that is the right fit is just so crystal clear.
Gada: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's very much how the, that particular kind of intuitive process works is that it just, you've just run through so many things.
You've just gone over it, that it's very clear, but it's very hard to explain step by step. Mm-hmm. How you got there, because what you did is you checked all the options sort of internally.
Guest: Yeah. Oh man, that is so good.
Gada: Um, and I think it's almost like one of the things that feels really nice is that there's something that's almost like you could create your own kind of,[00:33:00] space within this job, like your own kind of hub within it?
Mm-hmm. Instead of being like, it feels like in your job that you've been doing now, it's like you're very much an individual with like quite specific
Guest: Yes. Yes, very, very much so.
Gada: Whereas this feels like you could create your hub that allows you to expand into the role and build the connections.
Mm-hmm. And so there's a way that you can structure it that I think would work very well for you. But I do think that like the positive thing is that you have this space to structure. The thing that might be a little bit difficult is that that may feel a bit confusing or vague or like what's happening at the beginning.
There may be a period of like, okay, let me find my feet. But I think if you just know, yeah, this is just me getting a lot of space, you'll, you'll be like, oh, let me fill it up. That's a great thing.
Guest: That's exciting.
Gada: Yeah, it feels very exciting. So I [00:34:00] wanna go back to maybe the other areas that feel like you're a bit, so I think maybe with the work, it feels like you're kind of waiting to move into that and that there has been a sort of like, what is the. What is the shift that's happening? It also feels like maybe there was, in your current role, there were some like questions about what you could actually do.
Guest: Very much so, yeah. And this is still like a, like I said, this possibility just came up yesterday and when I read it it just, The, the first question that came to mind is, is this the next chapter? Like, am I looking at the next chapter and my soul, everything in my soul says yes, but then there's this very like, Practical part of me that's like, stuff doesn't always work out and you know, do you [00:35:00] even try to go for it or you know, is there somebody else that they already have in mind and you shouldn't even try applying.
Even though like everything in my soul is screaming. Yeah. That's the perfect role for you.
Gada: Yeah. It feels very like open to you, to me. Mm-hmm. It does feel like you have a lot of uncertainty. Yes. But it feels like this is also something where it would be beneficial to actually show how you could fill that space, which is something I feel like in your current role, it's been beneficial to you to not step out of bounds, not cross any lines.
Yeah. And have the structure. Yeah. Whereas this one, it's like what? There is a sense of like what is the possibility? Yeah. And how would you fill in what needs to be filled in that seems to be important to doing this role? So that actually, I think as you apply for it, like kind of [00:36:00] showing that side of you that maybe has been a bit damped down in your current role Yeah.
Would be helpful. Okay. But I also have the sense that there's something.
And I don't think this is related to work, but there's something that is, in terms of the next chapter, important for you. That's almost more like your, your own.
Your own goal, but it feels related to what you do in work. Like it feels related to the advocacy or your sense of what is right. Mm-hmm. But it feels like there's almost something that is aside from your actual job. Yeah. That feels a bit scary, but like something that you have or will have this sense of, I can do this.
And it's very much your expression of what you think needs to be done in this situation.[00:37:00]
Guest: So Tuesday I shared a story of my past. And like very open, very vulnerable, shared it in a place here with 26 other people. And very, lots of tears were shed everywhere. And I had It was a story of my spiritual journey, which included lots of other things in my past.
And I drew a card before I went in and it was get a new story and it was about not having the patterns of the past or the history weighing me down and finding like knowing that it happened, but not letting it. Anchor me into the past and open up to the possibilities [00:38:00] of what my future is, which is
probably the most introspective that I've been in my life's journey, especially my spiritual path away from evangelical Christianity to paganism and. Just really spent a lot of time thinking about the through line between all of that. Mm. And how it has created the person that I am right now. Mm-hmm.
Which there are, there are facets of my life that I would not be open to and, and accepting and loving of if I hadn't gone through that journey and then become the person that I am now.
Gada: Mm. Yeah, and this to me feels like there's almost this vibrating resonance and it's very interesting cuz it's very different than a lot of what I feel in your energy.
Like that's [00:39:00] enthusiasm, the sparking of all these different ideas. This has a very clear focus. There's a sincerity to it that's mm-hmm. Quite deep. Cuz the feeling of this came up when you said new chapter. Yeah. And so my feeling is that this story, you telling this story is actually directing you to something that's quite important to where you go in your life and like you're at a threshold that this is moving you into something.
Yeah. And I do think that involves community as well, but in a very different way that feels much more I wanna say somber, but it's not sad, but it's has a gravity to it.
Guest: Yes. Well, and it was part of what I talked about was the grief and loss of what was and [00:40:00] what. Things that I might have envisioned happening a certain way that won't be, and almost grieving that story that I thought was going to happen and isn't.
So it's been a very heavy thing that I have probably minimized a lot in my life. Like. It wasn't really that big of a deal. And sitting in that space and seeing everyone reacting to the story really drove home the fact that this was a lot, this was a big thing this happened. It has a lot of weight to it in my life, and I also feel tremendously light at starting to move that sludge out.
Gada: Yeah. It's interesting that you say move that sludge out because what it feels to me is that there is this sort of open space [00:41:00] now in, in you. Mm-hmm. And it feels not clear and open and happy, but. Open in a way, like there is a space that is, it's almost, it almost has that sort of, you know, when there's a pause and you're waiting for the next thing.
Yes. Yeah. That's the feeling that I'm getting this, but it's like a spatial pause. Mm-hmm. And there's the sort of hanging resonance in that. And I feel like that has its own timing. It doesn't feel like you can just figure out or know today what that next step is. But there's something there that I think that is opening up that is actually going to take you in a direction that feels, again, it feels related to at least what motivates you in your advocacy work? Your sense of what is right? Mm-hmm. Your sense of, of [00:42:00] wanting to make something better in the world. Um, but with a very different tone and it feels very personal and it feels very yours and it feels very It's interesting because again, there were so many directions in your mind, like when I first tune into you, like it's like a hundred possibilities and you can bring in these people and you can bring in these people and there's a way in your job it feels like you can have a bunch of things going on.
Yeah. And you're spinning these different plates of all the different people in the community, and you can have all of these things happening and they can interact in different ways. But this feels like it has a path that has a more clear, singular direction.
Guest: Yeah. Because it's so much more personal and it's so much more because the overwhelming recognition that I had as I was writing everything down to give my talk on Tuesday was.
And I've had it to an extent, but it's just been kind of like a fleeting thought and it just [00:43:00] hit and then sat there for a bit. And it was, if I had stayed in the pattern of what my family of origin wanted me to stay in, I would not have been a hospitable mother for my trans child. Hmm. I would not have been accepting.
I would not have been loving. I would not have been in her corner fighting for everything that she needs. And also in that space of standing up for her, realizing my own queer identity and being able to own that and stand in that space and not feel the shame and the. Guilt and the, all the things that were so deeply programmed in me.
Mm-hmm. So it's still that, that advocacy [00:44:00] piece, it's still that speaking for people who are marginalized, it's still that, but it's personal now and just this recognition that there's a reason why all of that turmoil sent me in a different direction than the rest of my family because I would not have been the parent that my child needed.
Gada: Mm-hmm. And it's interesting because it feels so ferocious to me. Like there's a strength, there is a, oh, it's fierce. It's fierce and it's very powerful and I think There's something about that power, that ferocity being in the personal space, but you being a lot more sort of open and flexible when you're working in spaces that kind of belong to the whole community.
Mm-hmm. There's something about this belonging to you and like this, when I say this, I mean the. The path you're moving into with this. Yeah. [00:45:00] Which I think is related to how you parent your daughter. It's related to like you, how you exist in the world in all the different facets of yourself.
Mm-hmm. But its also something that is like, it genuinely feels like a space that is emerging in you. And that will unfold into the world. Mm-hmm. But there's something so, ferocious, clear and strong and and it involves a kind of self ownership. Mm-hmm. That feels really important.
Mm-hmm. And I think that's also connected to something you said earlier about finding the place for yourself. In all of these things, and I think that's why it feels like a pause almost. There's this sense of I've now, you're now in this space. You've opened this space in yourself. You've opened the door to it a little bit to [00:46:00] like outside yourself to people you've shared it with.
But then there's this pause because it's not like you're willing to just bring it into what you know the world might want it to be. At first glance you have to be very careful to maintain the sense of the integrity of mm-hmm. It being what you do with this. But it does feel like it's taking you somewhere and that's related to your spiritual path.
But I think it's also related to something that you do or tell or how you are in the world. Mm-hmm. Very much so. But it's not very flexible, like you are very flexible in a lot of ways, you know, like you can fit into different spaces, but what you do in this, it's like you need to know, like that space was a place where you could talk about this.
And again, this might connect to the sense of creating your own frames that I was talking about with your job. Yeah. Like I think that's something that you know [00:47:00] how to do, but don't necessarily always remember to do for yourself.
Guest: Oh yeah. I'm really good at doing for others.
Gada: Yeah, but you're very good at creating frames oh, this is the space we need for everybody to be doing this. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. If you think, what do I need? And then instead of negotiating it in the moment you figure out how to build the frame, you can do it within.
Yeah, that makes sense. I think that will be easier for you like it feels like the space you were able to talk about this in was a space that was created to give you the space you needed. Yeah, absolutely. And then the next, the what you do next you may want to do something that has not necessarily such a, that kind of space, but I think you need to build your own frames for it.
Mm-hmm. Every time you work with this. Mm-hmm. [00:48:00] Because I don't think it's gonna work for you. I think you'll be really angry if you try to bring it into something where other are not like, It's not contained and it's not shaped by you.
Guest: Right. It will be a square peg, round hole situation.
Gada: Yeah. And I think it might feel like, okay, that didn't have the, it they, what people weren't in the right place to receive it properly
and I think that would be disappointing and frustrating. And I think that you also may like, you don't like to be upset with people. I think one of the reasons that you haven't talked about it in the past might be not just to protect yourself, but to protect other people from that ferocious part of yourself.
Because you're, you're a very nice person. Like, just listen to your laugh. Right? Like you, like you, and that, [00:49:00] that part and that sense, and like the buzzing and the bringing everybody in and then being like, oh, let me host everybody there's a sense that you naturally host people, you know?
Yes. Just in whatever space you're in. And it's very pleasant and I don't think. That ferocious. I'm really angry. Even though it, I think it drives a lot of where you choose to host and where you choose to put your energy and , who you choose to invest in and what you choose to work in it. It's underneath it.
You don't expose people to it very often.
Guest: No, no. I keep the colleague. Burn it all down.
Gada: Yeah, nicely. Like driving everything from an inner fire. Yes. Like it's great source of energy, but you don't wanna burn everybody around you. And I do think that is a risk for you despite how charming and lovely you are. I'm, I might [00:50:00] burn some humans. You might, but I think that that is as like when I talk about build the frame, build the frame in which you protect yourself from being angry at the people around you as much as.
Because I don't know, like I, I think if it doesn't go well, if something isn't going well and you've opened up this part of yourself, yeah, you might be hurt, but I think you'll also be ferociously upset and angry.
Guest: Yeah. I am finding, I, I was just telling a friend today, I said I have a, I'm finding myself being less tolerant.
Of the, again, it goes back to that thing that you mentioned about the sense of justice. Mm-hmm. Of like, we don't have time for the egos. This is wrong. [00:51:00] We know it's wrong, we need to do something about it. But I don't have a lot of tolerance for the excuses that continue to. Create the spaces that harm people.
Mm-hmm. And that there's this sense of no time to waste.
Gada: Like in terms of your work, it feels like that's relevant, but it's almost like you need to figure out how to bring that. That level of strength. Mm-hmm.
Into the world by yourself before it can permeate everything. Does that make sense?
Guest: Yeah. Yeah. That totally makes sense.
Gada: This is a process of saying, okay, how, who am I when I'm actually living from that? This is what I believe. Mm-hmm. And I think this is a bit common with people who are very good at being friendly and warm.
Cause if you're good at being friendly and warm and you can make people [00:52:00] feel very welcomed and very cozy and very nice, then that's a, then that's often an easier place to live from than maybe what's underneath that kind of. This is what I believe. That's a bit harder for other people to take than Right.
I'm welcoming you. I'm meeting all your needs. Like I have strong opinions about what you should do is not always people's favorite hear, but Im here to help you. Is one of people's favorite things to hear. Yeah. So I think there's something about balancing that and figuring out, because you have both sides.
You're never gonna lose access to your ability to make people feel good in a moment. Right? So it's like once you tap into that inner strength and like hearth of ferocity burning in there, you can really work with that. And it does feel almost like you've kept it as like the sort of pilot light guiding things.
[00:53:00] Yes. And now you wanna okay, no, let's build it out into this fireplace.
Guest: No, I got the bellows out now I wanna blow some air on
Yeah, exactly but you're never gonna lose access to the other parts of yourself where you can. Take a moment, step back, manage somebody's feelings if that's the thing you need to do in that moment.
Yeah. So I don't think you need to be afraid that you're just going to be like a sort of in a, in a trance of fury destroying everything in your path. Cause this is not the whole of who you are, even if it's sometimes feels like you have enough anger inside you to do it.
Guest: It's good to know that there's like a safety valve in there somewhere.
Gada: Yeah. But I do think that one of the things to do is to carefully structure the situations. Yeah. And using that sort of intuitive process of how, you know, what would it feel like if I did, if I did it this way or what feels right. And I, and in this sense, [00:54:00] I think probably intuitive in both senses.
Like just what feels right in your body. Mm-hmm. And also coming up with possibilities the way you like to.
Guest: Right. Hmm. That's, and when you were saying the, you know, what feels right in your body? The, cuz I was. Really having a hard time with this talk that I had given and just really stressing out about it.
And the person who, who has created that container for what happened on Tuesday was trying to be very gentle and saying, you don't have to do something that you don't want to do. And I said, you don't understand as. Hard as this feels there is an equal part that says it has to happen. Like there is no question about it.
This has to happen and there's nothing that can stop this from happening. I, I threw up [00:55:00] the morning of, I was a mess, but I was so certain that it needed to get out. Mm-hmm. That it was an intensity that I haven't. I don't remember having felt that.
Gada: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It feels very present. And it also, I have the sense that
it's almost like, you know, you're ready to create something out of this. Mm-hmm. And you do, and it, you d but it doesn't feel like, you know what it is it feels like the door is closed. Or like you can't see past it. Mm-hmm. But there's something like this and I, and it almost feels like all of the work you've been doing with your job and the communities is almost something that you can integrate into. What, what that, The change you specifically want to see mm-hmm. As opposed to participating in. [00:56:00] The larger project that lots of people are involved in. Does that make sense?
Guest: Totally makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Gada: And this is why I think it comes up, when you said new chapter, I felt, well the new chapter is this.
This I think is going to actually expand. And I think that there's, it's almost like the more you and I and it does feel like there's a beat, it feels like there's a beat where you. Don't, it's not clear, like it's not, this is happening this week or this is happening now. Mm-hmm. But you're poised for something where I think people are going to come to you.
Mm-hmm. People are going to be drawn to you with this particular thing that you wanna do, and it's much more you.
And it, I wanna say leading, but it's leading by standing in something that's very powerful. Mm-hmm. Rather than like [00:57:00] leading by moving other people or guiding other people, if that makes sense. Yeah. But there's something I think that's very important for your work that's coming out of this. At some.
Mm-hmm. And I, when I say your work, I mean like your work in this life, not necessarily Yeah. Your job. Yeah. Hmm.
But right now it feels like the only thing is to be with that feeling and not like with be with what you feel there and not close it down and not, mm-hmm. Like there's nothing to do about it except to really. Get the bellows out and let it build.
Guest: Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because it feels like, yeah, there is this cusp of something else, but you're right.
I don't know what it is, but I'm also in a strangely at peace with that and not feeling anxious [00:58:00] like. Well, where's the next step? You know? Mm-hmm. I'm not feeling like I need to move forward until whatever it is reveals itself, which is unusual for me.
Gada: Mm-hmm. And this is also, I think, unusual because it has a different quality of how you work with it.
Like I, I think often when I have the sense of you building things in. A job space or in a community space, you are more aware of like, oh, I can invite this person in, I can invite this person in, or, and you're aware of the other people and you're aware of your role within a group. Mm-hmm. This feels more almost like you can't see to the other side, but all you do is you put yourself in the right place.
Mm-hmm. And then others find you. It doesn't have that sense of you having to hold the awareness of the others that you usually do when you're like [00:59:00] organizing something or creating something or working with others. Yeah, that makes sense. So I think all you need to do is you don't need to know oh, this is the plan for it or the vision for it, or This is what it is.
Even. You just need to know, oh, when I know my next step, I do the next step and then that will pull what needs to come. To it
Guest: to just be aware of what comes in
Gada: Yeah. And what feels right for you to be doing. Mm-hmm. But it does have this sense of being this like unique thing in your life where it's really what do you need to be doing as opposed to being aware of everyone around you.
Guest: Yeah. Well cuz I'm normally the one that's taking care of everything. And like I said, not necessarily putting me in that space at all of people to be taken care of. Yeah. And it feels like this next [01:00:00] one is not a, a selfish me first and me only, but it is a how do I, um,
how do I center myself in my own life? In a way that still leaves space for other people to be in it and, you know, to, to be whatever is the next step. Mm-hmm. And not from an ego standpoint, but from a, this is how we center care for ourselves. Mm-hmm. And helping other people. Find that space for themselves by having them walk with me for a bit.
Gada: Yeah, very much so. And a couple of things in that I feel very important to me. One is[01:01:00] the way it feels to me is allowing yourself to fill up yourself to fully be full of self, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And that feels very powerful. And that doesn't feel like it pushes people out of the larger thing.
It just feels like you are not making yourself smaller so other people can be in you. Yeah. It's like completely filling up the space that you need to fill. And then that's connected to the last thing you said about people walking along beside you because it feels like if you fully fill up your part, then you're not doing the other people's part.
They come and do what they need to do with you. Right. And you're not taking responsibility for what they're doing with you in the same way. Mm-hmm. You're taking responsibility for your own parts. Mm-hmm. And almost like trusting the whole as opposed to being responsible for the whole
Guest: Yeah. While still having a [01:02:00] collective connected experience.
Gada: Yeah. But I feel like it's connected in a way where you actually get to. Be there and then connect to another instead of create the space for the other and manage how they're coming into the space, you know? Yeah. I feel like a lot of the time you are doing a lot of the everything.
Guest: Very much so,
Gada: and in some context in your life, you're still going to be doing this kind of hosting.
Let me show you how to come in, let me help you do your part that, right. That's a role you might take in, but this in particular is what if you just fill up your space and see what happens around you?
Guest: Hmm. Yeah. I am curious to see how it goes.
Gada: Yeah, me too. You'll have to lemme know.
Guest: Absolutely. Hmm. That's exciting.
Gada: [01:03:00] Yeah, it's very strong. It's a's very strong. And I love this because I feel like there's almost like this. Just raw power, which again, was not the first thing that I felt in your energy. Like very bubbly, very, mm-hmm. Like trying to find the space for it. But then this just comes through.
It's very powerful and I think if you just stop stopping it, it will just come through.
Guest: I'm trying to manage it like I've managed other things before and I just need to just let it, let it be. Its gloriousness. Yeah. Just respect it as I'm staring at a carnelian flame that I've got sitting on my desk. Oh yeah.
Just let the fire go.
Gada: Yeah, let it go. Let it build. Yep. Build hearths for it. Build. Yep. Can build successively, larger spaces [01:04:00] for it.
Guest: Oh, I love that.
Gada: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here.
Guest: Absolutely. Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's wonderful. Yeah.
Gada: I'm so glad we got to do that. I do this. I hope you have a wonderful day.
Guest: You as well. Thank you for sharing your
Gada: Oh, you're welcome. Bye.